My Conversation with Charlie Kirk

His last long-form interview

Charlie Kirk interviewed me exactly 2 weeks before he was murdered. I didn’t know this at the time, but this was the last long-form interview he would ever do.

Links for Spotify and Apple Podcast:

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Here is what I wrote the day he died:

Exactly two weeks ago, I met with Charlie Kirk.

Flew out to his studio in Phoenix. Turning Point USA had a whole compound with 6 buildings out there. I noticed the building with the main studio, where Charlie records his show, was one of two buildings that were unmarked. His assistant explained that this was for security reasons.

I met with multiple members of TP USA and was impressed with how young and energetic they were. They were organized and motivated and were clearly inspired by Charlie and his willingness to speak with anyone and everyone. He is one of the original inspirations for the “debate me bro” meme. Because he would literally debate anyone.

From seeing him on various podcasts, he struck me as a thoughtful guy but I didn’t know what kind of interview to expect. The 1.5 hour long discussion with Charlie went extremely well. He was gracious, curious, quick on his feet, and asked probing questions. Right away I understood why he developed the following he had. He graciously put a copy of Troubled on his desk so that it could be visible to the audience throughout the interview. After we wrapped up, Charlie’s team told me the interview would air sometime in September. At this point it is unlikely it will see the light of day.

News of his passing hit me harder than I expected. Our conversation lasted only an afternoon, but it left an impression. Charlie was gracious. Thoughtful. Willing to engage with anyone. In a time when many public figures play it safe, he courted risk and confrontation. Including jousting with the far-right groypers who would troll him at his events. His intellectual courage is why TP USA has become such a major force in American politics. Even if our interview never airs, I’m thankful I had the chance to sit down with him.

The fact that he was assassinated reveals just how dangerous it can be to forthrightly speak your mind in the public arena. Charlie’s life—and his death—will echo far beyond his own movement.

My essay on Charlie Kirk’s monumental influence here.

What Charlie Kirk’s Murder Reveals About Historical Amnesia