This is because humiliation is the same as Shame and Shame is the opposite of Passion.
Passion is the positive of “libido” the life force, vitality, being alive. The word is only used to describe “survival” or “reproduction”. Therefore it is a synonym for libido, life force, which in males I believe to be masculinity and in females to be femininity.
When people feel these they come alive and can accomplish many things, are generous to others with it and as charismatic, exuberant, and express a happiness that one might call bliss and is contagious to others.
The opposite of this life force is, well, death.
So when humiliated one feels as if threatened with death and feels like starting to die. Which in the animal kingdom often results in a defensive lashing out with deadly, defensive force.
In humans, feels like a withering away of masculinity (or femininity).
The absence of masculinity or femininity is Shame. Whose flip side is Rage.
They are the same psychological force.
The whole story of Medusa and then Perseus teaches us about all this
I learned what covert aka vulnerable narcissism is the hard way in 2021, and discovered that I had been surrounded by these types for my first 25 years of life. She reminded me of an ex, and once I learned the details of covert narcissism, I finally made sense of a lifetime of poor romantic choices.
Be very wary of anyone who tries to make you responsible for their emotions. Im vigilant now, but still give the benefit of the doubt until I cant.
Also, vulnerable narcissism drives all of the nonsense we see from the extreme left today. "Why should I change? Im unhappy because of everyone else."
This is why psychology is forever a pseudo science. Everyone is very different. Especially those of us that fall into the neat little box diagnoses that the insurance companies require.
I dont like the dishonesty of this idea, but do you think that cluster B types would benefit more from a "CPTSD" diagnosis to protect their fragile egos from the stigma of a BPD, Histrionic, or Narcissism diagnosis?
Thanks. This quote is interesting: “Humiliation has been described by researchers as 'the nuclear bomb of the emotions’”. This seems to be at the heart of narcissism specifically. I wonder - are there some for whom fear, instead of humiliation, is that nuclear bomb? Those people would be i think less narcissistic (more something else). I think that narcissism exists where humiliation or shame as an emotional experience specifically has been unsafe and unmanageable. When this vulnerable emotion is unsafe, rage with all its power is the least vulnerable place to go.
I see humiliation as Shame and Shame as a diminishing of masculinity or femininity depending on the person- both of which are synonyms for “passion “ which is “life force “ called “libido” by Freud.
It’s a “nuclear bomb “ per se because it’s “soul destruction “ of either masculinity or femininity both of which are the passion of feeling alive.
It seems that today, our political divide is between those with grandiose narcissism and those with vulnerable narcissism... with that latter having multiplied and taken over most of our institutions.
First, I think everyone is a narcissist to varying degrees. For example, I think Mother Teresa pursued her own self-interest and had an ego. I don't think you survive unless you have an ego. It is the lessons of restraint and humility that allow us to control our driving psychological needs to be liked and wanted... to feel a sense of achieved status within the herd. So narcissism is ubiquitous; it is just the degree of severity, or lack of regulating control, that defines it as a problem.
It seems to me that women, in general, are more prone to vulnerable narcissism. That is my observation in life. It is also clear that the general population has become more prone to vulnerable narcissism. There is a large and growing expectation of people being seen as individual Gods that should be worshipped... and I think we can primarily blame the education system for moving the population in this direct. The education system is dominated by women.
It is not a good thing. Vulnerable narcissists are often people that need cognitive behavior therapy. In other words, they are mentally unwell. And we have allowed them to take over society. So the inmates are running the asylum now... and like many crazy people they think they are fine and everyone else is crazy.
Grandiose narcissists are less of a problem because their ego pursuits are front-facing and transparent. They might be as dangerous with power, but we can see them coming from a mile away. Most admit their big ego need. Conversely, vulnerable narcissists are stealth destructors. They wear a mask of sanity while boiling with strong negative emotions that motivate their behavior.
This interview with Jordan Peterson by Cathy Newman illustrates the example. Peterson is a grandiose narcissist and Newman demonstrates what I like labeling vulnerable narcissist "crybully" tendency... the dual mask of being both a victim / victim advocate while being quite aggressive and hostile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54
I think we need to consider that this is largely a male-vs-female difference. And since we don't have any historical evidence of a female dominated society of any scope or time, maybe we should consider that, as females have risen to dominate society in the west, this is the reason we are feeling like the world has gone insane.
Great points Rob with the last paragraph being partícula poignant.
It reminded me of one of the central points of the book “Caste” by Isabel Wilkerson. The book draws comparisons of castes systems in as they relate to the current social order in the United States. A primary drivers of a Caste system is (the fear of) the humiliation of being brought down to the status a lower caste. It is very easy to see how this has led to violence. Also, it a allows one to control those in higher castes though this fear.
On a somewhat lighter note it also reflects on why folks would take a job with less vacation but more vacation than their colleagues. Status consciousness runs very deep. To be placed in a situation where you have less vacation time, salary... even a lesser office or parking spot can be very irksome to people particularly narcissists. It is a vanity that corporations are all too happy to take advantage of. Commentators such as Arthur Brooks note that this is a fundamental source of unhappiness. It is indeed a timeless theme. To quote the Devil of Milton in Paradise Lost:
The narcissist fears annihilation. I mean this in a literal sense of becoming nothing, not in the more common figurative sense of being blown up or destroyed. Some (many? all?) can exist just fine in their own heads, having curated their lives so that they don't encounter pushback. They are still the center of their own dramas, a legend in their own minds. It is only upon encountering the harsher aspects of reality, as we all must at times, that they become frightened that they may be cast into the outer darkness, with no resources sent their way to feed them. It is similar to the fear the person with Borderline Personality Disorder has, that the family can physically and emotionally support only one child, so if anyone else gets attention, it means there is literally nothing left for them.
They can unlearn this only with great difficulty, and mostly they don't UNLEARN it, no matter how much evidence of safety and nurture is provided. They learn to manage the situation and their feelings when they feel they are at the brink of annihilation. Though it is associated with abuse and trauma, that is not always the case, suggesting that the condition is hardwired. They didn't learn to be this way by bad decisions, and not always bad environment and trauma. There is a huge genetic substrate to personality disorders, contrary to what most of psychology has taught for a hundred years.
When we had such patients we would have to hammer home repeatedly "You didn't cause this. It's not your fault. But you are the only one who can or will fix it. You have to learn to adapt."
Men and women are equally likely to be vulnerable narcissists. Men are more likely than women to be grandiose narcissists, though. The aggression can take the form of overt physical confrontation, but also backbiting, gossiping, reputational destruction, and so on.
Re: Will Storr quote:
This is because humiliation is the same as Shame and Shame is the opposite of Passion.
Passion is the positive of “libido” the life force, vitality, being alive. The word is only used to describe “survival” or “reproduction”. Therefore it is a synonym for libido, life force, which in males I believe to be masculinity and in females to be femininity.
When people feel these they come alive and can accomplish many things, are generous to others with it and as charismatic, exuberant, and express a happiness that one might call bliss and is contagious to others.
The opposite of this life force is, well, death.
So when humiliated one feels as if threatened with death and feels like starting to die. Which in the animal kingdom often results in a defensive lashing out with deadly, defensive force.
In humans, feels like a withering away of masculinity (or femininity).
The absence of masculinity or femininity is Shame. Whose flip side is Rage.
They are the same psychological force.
The whole story of Medusa and then Perseus teaches us about all this
From Rob: https://open.substack.com/pub/robkhenderson/p/beneath-the-mask-of-vulnerable-narcissism
I learned what covert aka vulnerable narcissism is the hard way in 2021, and discovered that I had been surrounded by these types for my first 25 years of life. She reminded me of an ex, and once I learned the details of covert narcissism, I finally made sense of a lifetime of poor romantic choices.
Be very wary of anyone who tries to make you responsible for their emotions. Im vigilant now, but still give the benefit of the doubt until I cant.
Also, vulnerable narcissism drives all of the nonsense we see from the extreme left today. "Why should I change? Im unhappy because of everyone else."
This is why psychology is forever a pseudo science. Everyone is very different. Especially those of us that fall into the neat little box diagnoses that the insurance companies require.
I dont like the dishonesty of this idea, but do you think that cluster B types would benefit more from a "CPTSD" diagnosis to protect their fragile egos from the stigma of a BPD, Histrionic, or Narcissism diagnosis?
You should talk to Josh Slocum.
Thanks. This quote is interesting: “Humiliation has been described by researchers as 'the nuclear bomb of the emotions’”. This seems to be at the heart of narcissism specifically. I wonder - are there some for whom fear, instead of humiliation, is that nuclear bomb? Those people would be i think less narcissistic (more something else). I think that narcissism exists where humiliation or shame as an emotional experience specifically has been unsafe and unmanageable. When this vulnerable emotion is unsafe, rage with all its power is the least vulnerable place to go.
I see humiliation as Shame and Shame as a diminishing of masculinity or femininity depending on the person- both of which are synonyms for “passion “ which is “life force “ called “libido” by Freud.
It’s a “nuclear bomb “ per se because it’s “soul destruction “ of either masculinity or femininity both of which are the passion of feeling alive.
Another great piece Rob!
It seems that today, our political divide is between those with grandiose narcissism and those with vulnerable narcissism... with that latter having multiplied and taken over most of our institutions.
First, I think everyone is a narcissist to varying degrees. For example, I think Mother Teresa pursued her own self-interest and had an ego. I don't think you survive unless you have an ego. It is the lessons of restraint and humility that allow us to control our driving psychological needs to be liked and wanted... to feel a sense of achieved status within the herd. So narcissism is ubiquitous; it is just the degree of severity, or lack of regulating control, that defines it as a problem.
It seems to me that women, in general, are more prone to vulnerable narcissism. That is my observation in life. It is also clear that the general population has become more prone to vulnerable narcissism. There is a large and growing expectation of people being seen as individual Gods that should be worshipped... and I think we can primarily blame the education system for moving the population in this direct. The education system is dominated by women.
It is not a good thing. Vulnerable narcissists are often people that need cognitive behavior therapy. In other words, they are mentally unwell. And we have allowed them to take over society. So the inmates are running the asylum now... and like many crazy people they think they are fine and everyone else is crazy.
Grandiose narcissists are less of a problem because their ego pursuits are front-facing and transparent. They might be as dangerous with power, but we can see them coming from a mile away. Most admit their big ego need. Conversely, vulnerable narcissists are stealth destructors. They wear a mask of sanity while boiling with strong negative emotions that motivate their behavior.
This interview with Jordan Peterson by Cathy Newman illustrates the example. Peterson is a grandiose narcissist and Newman demonstrates what I like labeling vulnerable narcissist "crybully" tendency... the dual mask of being both a victim / victim advocate while being quite aggressive and hostile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54
I think we need to consider that this is largely a male-vs-female difference. And since we don't have any historical evidence of a female dominated society of any scope or time, maybe we should consider that, as females have risen to dominate society in the west, this is the reason we are feeling like the world has gone insane.
Great points Rob with the last paragraph being partícula poignant.
It reminded me of one of the central points of the book “Caste” by Isabel Wilkerson. The book draws comparisons of castes systems in as they relate to the current social order in the United States. A primary drivers of a Caste system is (the fear of) the humiliation of being brought down to the status a lower caste. It is very easy to see how this has led to violence. Also, it a allows one to control those in higher castes though this fear.
On a somewhat lighter note it also reflects on why folks would take a job with less vacation but more vacation than their colleagues. Status consciousness runs very deep. To be placed in a situation where you have less vacation time, salary... even a lesser office or parking spot can be very irksome to people particularly narcissists. It is a vanity that corporations are all too happy to take advantage of. Commentators such as Arthur Brooks note that this is a fundamental source of unhappiness. It is indeed a timeless theme. To quote the Devil of Milton in Paradise Lost:
“The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less then he
Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n”
The narcissist fears annihilation. I mean this in a literal sense of becoming nothing, not in the more common figurative sense of being blown up or destroyed. Some (many? all?) can exist just fine in their own heads, having curated their lives so that they don't encounter pushback. They are still the center of their own dramas, a legend in their own minds. It is only upon encountering the harsher aspects of reality, as we all must at times, that they become frightened that they may be cast into the outer darkness, with no resources sent their way to feed them. It is similar to the fear the person with Borderline Personality Disorder has, that the family can physically and emotionally support only one child, so if anyone else gets attention, it means there is literally nothing left for them.
They can unlearn this only with great difficulty, and mostly they don't UNLEARN it, no matter how much evidence of safety and nurture is provided. They learn to manage the situation and their feelings when they feel they are at the brink of annihilation. Though it is associated with abuse and trauma, that is not always the case, suggesting that the condition is hardwired. They didn't learn to be this way by bad decisions, and not always bad environment and trauma. There is a huge genetic substrate to personality disorders, contrary to what most of psychology has taught for a hundred years.
When we had such patients we would have to hammer home repeatedly "You didn't cause this. It's not your fault. But you are the only one who can or will fix it. You have to learn to adapt."
Men and women are equally likely to be vulnerable narcissists. Men are more likely than women to be grandiose narcissists, though. The aggression can take the form of overt physical confrontation, but also backbiting, gossiping, reputational destruction, and so on.