I thought the observation that Dark Triads are more prone to conspicuous consumption and displays of social status really interesting. Would like to know more about this kind of signaling.
Promoting stable homes for kids makes sense…except that the unstable people creating unstable homes don’t give a f*ck about the needs of their kids; they are entirely wrapped up in their own needs. We need solutions for dealing with these unstable people hell-bent on creating destruction and misery wherever they go.
You make a very good point, and then of course they pass on their unstable tendencies through genetics, so it’s a double whammy for the kids. Genetics and environment working against them.
A child can deal with a certain amount of instability, in terms of the people in their life changing, at unexpected times, so long as the structure in which they live has standards, that have to be met. Having spent roughly 3 1/2+ years in convalescent hospitals, from four to twelve, there was always a swirl of new people coming and present one's going, with no rhyme nor apparent reason for either, to me as a child. Yet the steadiness and reliability of the nurses, doctors, times for medication, etc., created a very stable structure in which to live and feel secure, if not particularly happy.
Curious to see if gender correlates with these…personally I feel like dark triad women are better at hiding their dark triad traits than men with equal proclivities
What struck me is how both the Light and Dark Triads link to higher earnings and higher self-esteem — just from different sources. A useful mirror for self-reflection (I see my own lights and darks in there 😂).
I can relate. I’ve also noticed a shift from dark to light in my own lifetime. But it didn’t happen automatically or even naturally. It’s taken a lot of work and personal reflection — just as it clearly has in your own journey.
Your point about instability in childhood really hit home. Looking back, I can see how it pulled me toward the dark side early on. Instability doesn’t just disrupt — it puts selfishness on full display, and those examples stick.
For me, the primary difference between the two triads comes down to this: selfishness versus selflessness. That’s a gut check I come back to often.
That’s why I’ve devoted myself to stability — nearly 30 years with my first wife, raising three kids, fully engaged as a husband and father. I’ve bet my life on this strategy, and my reflection back so far says: so good.
I am especially curious about the connection between high neuroticism and dark triad traits. Is it that insecurity and instability in childhood can make both more likely, rather than neuroticism itself being a direct cause of a proclivity to exhibit dark triad traits?
My experience is that there are a lot of people out there with vulnerable narcissistic traits that put them squarely in the dark triad, but that claim they are embedded in the light triad. They scratch your eyes out and then retreat into an identity of a protected victim group, or as an advocate for victims groups.
It seems to me that the over-education of people (more education than they can productively exploit) plus social media likes and followers has created a big explosion in narcissism, but a facade that prevents the acceptance and self-awareness of the standard human flaws that are otherwise development challenges overcome with productive struggle.
And related to this I see a female component. The trend rise of females in social and economic dominance has been a hockey stick, and it has never before happened in the history of the slowly evolving human animal. Females tend to more often demonstrate vulnerable narcissistic traits, while males more overt narcissism.
I also think the social chaos we all feel, and to some degree the crash of stable families, is somewhat a product of this change... less economic opportunity for males, and females needing to contribute to the family finances. When both are working, there is at least some stability if one loses a job, or gets sick etc. With the decline in economic opportunity for male jobs, and the rise of reality and expectation that females will be the bread-winner, family stability is less likely. Many fathers when asked why they ran away from their family obligations reported their shame at failing to provide for their family. Of course some turn to crime and then spiral downward in even greater unemployability.
In terms of what we can do to improve family stability, I believe that we need to focus on government policies that increase the economic opportunity for all Americans, but primarily males. We need to consider this in elections... which candidate, party and/or voter initiative either improves or adversely impacts these things.
Rob, do you know of any studies of children of divorced parents that focus on outcomes related to how the children were raised regarding duration of custody? Specifically, were the children mostly with one parent all year round except for some short stints with the other OR did the children shuffle back and forth weekly between parents? (I remember the first way was typical when I was kid but now my divorced friends mostly practice the second method of sharing the parenting so the kids spend three or four days with each parent each week)
I remember seeing James Fallon in a documentary on his research. He revealed that when he raised this with his family they did not seem surprised at the finding, but loved him anyway as a dutiful and dependable father and dad.
I thought the observation that Dark Triads are more prone to conspicuous consumption and displays of social status really interesting. Would like to know more about this kind of signaling.
Promoting stable homes for kids makes sense…except that the unstable people creating unstable homes don’t give a f*ck about the needs of their kids; they are entirely wrapped up in their own needs. We need solutions for dealing with these unstable people hell-bent on creating destruction and misery wherever they go.
You make a very good point, and then of course they pass on their unstable tendencies through genetics, so it’s a double whammy for the kids. Genetics and environment working against them.
A child can deal with a certain amount of instability, in terms of the people in their life changing, at unexpected times, so long as the structure in which they live has standards, that have to be met. Having spent roughly 3 1/2+ years in convalescent hospitals, from four to twelve, there was always a swirl of new people coming and present one's going, with no rhyme nor apparent reason for either, to me as a child. Yet the steadiness and reliability of the nurses, doctors, times for medication, etc., created a very stable structure in which to live and feel secure, if not particularly happy.
I'm a family law attorney. Family law judges are high light triad people. Is there any research on how to influence people with light triad traits?
Curious to see if gender correlates with these…personally I feel like dark triad women are better at hiding their dark triad traits than men with equal proclivities
What struck me is how both the Light and Dark Triads link to higher earnings and higher self-esteem — just from different sources. A useful mirror for self-reflection (I see my own lights and darks in there 😂).
I can relate. I’ve also noticed a shift from dark to light in my own lifetime. But it didn’t happen automatically or even naturally. It’s taken a lot of work and personal reflection — just as it clearly has in your own journey.
Your point about instability in childhood really hit home. Looking back, I can see how it pulled me toward the dark side early on. Instability doesn’t just disrupt — it puts selfishness on full display, and those examples stick.
For me, the primary difference between the two triads comes down to this: selfishness versus selflessness. That’s a gut check I come back to often.
That’s why I’ve devoted myself to stability — nearly 30 years with my first wife, raising three kids, fully engaged as a husband and father. I’ve bet my life on this strategy, and my reflection back so far says: so good.
I am especially curious about the connection between high neuroticism and dark triad traits. Is it that insecurity and instability in childhood can make both more likely, rather than neuroticism itself being a direct cause of a proclivity to exhibit dark triad traits?
My experience is that there are a lot of people out there with vulnerable narcissistic traits that put them squarely in the dark triad, but that claim they are embedded in the light triad. They scratch your eyes out and then retreat into an identity of a protected victim group, or as an advocate for victims groups.
It seems to me that the over-education of people (more education than they can productively exploit) plus social media likes and followers has created a big explosion in narcissism, but a facade that prevents the acceptance and self-awareness of the standard human flaws that are otherwise development challenges overcome with productive struggle.
And related to this I see a female component. The trend rise of females in social and economic dominance has been a hockey stick, and it has never before happened in the history of the slowly evolving human animal. Females tend to more often demonstrate vulnerable narcissistic traits, while males more overt narcissism.
I also think the social chaos we all feel, and to some degree the crash of stable families, is somewhat a product of this change... less economic opportunity for males, and females needing to contribute to the family finances. When both are working, there is at least some stability if one loses a job, or gets sick etc. With the decline in economic opportunity for male jobs, and the rise of reality and expectation that females will be the bread-winner, family stability is less likely. Many fathers when asked why they ran away from their family obligations reported their shame at failing to provide for their family. Of course some turn to crime and then spiral downward in even greater unemployability.
In terms of what we can do to improve family stability, I believe that we need to focus on government policies that increase the economic opportunity for all Americans, but primarily males. We need to consider this in elections... which candidate, party and/or voter initiative either improves or adversely impacts these things.
Rob, do you know of any studies of children of divorced parents that focus on outcomes related to how the children were raised regarding duration of custody? Specifically, were the children mostly with one parent all year round except for some short stints with the other OR did the children shuffle back and forth weekly between parents? (I remember the first way was typical when I was kid but now my divorced friends mostly practice the second method of sharing the parenting so the kids spend three or four days with each parent each week)
Hey Rob, in these studies, when we refer to childhood are we referring specifically to children ages 0 to 18?
I remember seeing James Fallon in a documentary on his research. He revealed that when he raised this with his family they did not seem surprised at the finding, but loved him anyway as a dutiful and dependable father and dad.